Stumbled on Payment Issue

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This topic contains 21 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by Avatar orth.bastian 6 days, 16 hours ago.

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  • #129083
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    Henriette
    Participant

    Hi,
    In my country it is legally not allowed to hold money from vendors as long as I do not take responsibility for the products of the order from that vendor.
    Obviously I don’t want to do that so I also set up store invoice for vendors bank account information so customer can pay directly to the vendor.

    With other compatible payment gateway plugins with split payment option that’s not a problem because the money goes straight to vendor (I don’t use commissions, only subscriptions). So the bank account solution is only for vendors who want their payment strictly on their bank account en don’t wish to use other payment gateways.
    The reason for that is that with payment gateways you are required to have a business number and business bank account.
    And some vendors do not have this because for example they are not required to have a business number for some reason.

    That being said, while doing a test order this morning it occurred to me that although vendor wants only payment on his bank account, the customer can still choose between different payment methods like:

    O Bank Transfer
    O PayPal
    O Payment Gateway

    So even when vendor wants to be payed only by bank transfer the customer can still choose for other payment methods.
    Offcourse they will not work than but it’s not customer friendly.
    I know this is all because of the Woocommerce payment settings but I must keep the other payment methods enabled for vendors who do prefer to get payed through one of the other payment gateways.

    So I was wondering if there might be some sort of tweak or workaround where vendor can set to be only paid by bank account (or personal PayPal; both info shown in store invoice) and that the other payment methods in checkout are disabled according to that vendors setting?

    I know it might be asked a lot and maybe I’m missing something here but it would be very appreciated if you could point me in the right direction.

    Thank you!

  • #130144
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    Henriette
    Participant
    This reply has been marked as private.
  • #130423
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    SebastianFloKa
    Participant

    + 1

    But WCFM does not support your request as is confusing for multivendor checkout. But for single vendor checkout (e.g. PayPal direct pay plugin) could work if there’s a basis on that all vendors needs to agree, for example PayPal supported by all. See here:
    https://wclovers.com/forums/topic/stores-vendors-selecting-its-own-payment-methods/

    @ Henriette – can I ask:
    Are you within Europe? Or in other words: what is your plan to go for?
    – multivendor checkout standard
    – multivendor chekcout stripe split pay:
    If so, did you check if tax on shipping is calculating correctly in case there are vendors with different tax status or products with different VAT (or will they all have same tax status and all products have same VAT):
    https://wclovers.com/forums/topic/tax-on-shipping-incorrect-based-on-cart-and-not-on-choice-of-vendor/

    – single vendor checkout (e.g. with PayPal direct pay):
    If so, did you check how many emails are sent to customer with tracking numbers (also notes to customers) per item:
    https://wclovers.com/forums/topic/customers-receive-one-email-for-each-product-shipped/
    https://wclovers.com/forums/topic/wcfm-germanized-entering-a-delivery-time-crashes-product-manager/

    I’m asking because you are already “getting tired of issues” like you mention in other post but I wonder if you are aware of the main issues yet …

  • #130439
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    Henriette
    Participant

    Thank you @sebastian, I will check.

    Are you within Europe? Or in other words: what is your plan to go for?

    Yes I am. We’re practically neighbors 🙂
    I live about ten minutes ride from the German border in the Netherlands.

    I already have set up single vendor checkout.
    Right now maybe my bank can function as third party to hold the money and pay to vendor.
    But what I wish the most is that every vendor can set up his own payment method on checkout.
    I know this was not the intention of Multivendor Marketplace and I understand. And I really love the plugins and their possibilities but unfortunately I am restricted to the laws of my country.

    I plan on using Ideal payment (like Stripe) and Paypal for electronic payment gateway and I would like to have vendor also can choose bank account directly from checkout. So not with the special snippet (which doesn’t work for me anyway because bank details are not shown after checkout, only in store invoice but I’ll settle for less in this case.)
    However with Ideal I can let vendors pay directly or split payment if I wish.

    But I have made a fast food ordering website for my boss with Joomla and he can receive Ideal payments too from customers.
    I have also set this up for him with custom Joomla plugin and it is exactly the same as the API fields in WCFM – WooCommerce Multivendor Marketplace – Direct PayPal Plugin in which you only have to fill in the API Keys. In this case from Ideal.

    I am happy to pay for such plugin so no middle person or company is needed to let vendor get their money.

  • #130448
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    Henriette
    Participant

    @sebastian as for Tax

    If so, did you check if tax on shipping is calculating correctly in case there are vendors with different tax status or products with different VAT (or will they all have same tax status and all products have same VAT):

    Well I don’t have this problem with single vendor checkout. I set VAT: 21% – 9% – Zero Rate
    21% is mostly for non-food/luxury articles like clothes, electronics, household equipment etc. which I expect most of my vendors going to sell.
    9% is mostly for food but sometimes for a few other goods
    Zero Rate is for private vendors or for vendors who don’t have to pay VAT due to heir business model.
    I made 21% standard VAT so vendor can leave it this way in Product Manager or choose a different VAT rate.
    It would be nicer indeed when vendor could choose his own tax because right now vendor with other VAT rate than 21% has to choose his own VAT rate every time he adds a product.

    Although I must admit that the added shipping tax in cart puzzles me a little bit but I’m not that far yet to have a good look into it.

    As for Single Vendor Checkout:

    If so, did you check how many emails are sent to customer with tracking numbers (also notes to customers) per item:

    I haven’t tested it with PayPal yet.
    Right now customer gets an order confirmation with attached pdf file with vendor Bank Account information.
    I would rather have this just in the confirmation email but that seems not possible because the emails come from Woocommerce.
    But it’s just 1 email and 1 pdf with all the items customer has bought.

    Does this answer your questions?

  • #130452
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    SebastianFloKa
    Participant

    … Thanks, that helps. Because with PayPal Direct Pay + Germanized plugin and WCFM Ultimate tracking feature there is sent ONE tracking-# email for EACH ITEM and not per order. But if that’s not the case for you, looks like it’s an issue again with germanized plugin (but to be confirmed). thanks.

  • #130454
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    Henriette
    Participant

    May I ask you what is Germanized plugin and why you use this?

  • #130463
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    SebastianFloKa
    Participant

    The name is a bit misleading, should better be called europized plugin. It makes your site conform the legal requirements. Main things are display the inclueded VAT to each price, link to costs for shipment, use for the tax of shipping the same tax as the product, create automatic deliverys for DHL and communication with DHL.
    The point is, that WCFM says it’s compatible with Germanized but actually isn’t:
    Example:
    tax split (or split tax, however) is a simple formula, nothing special at all, but should be done per vendor of course. The Germanized plugin doesn’t know about different vendors so use the cart as basis. It would be work of WCFM to transfer this simple formula to each vendor and not use the complete cart. I describe this here:
    https://wclovers.com/forums/topic/wcfm-germanized-split-tax-on-off-causing-issues-with-vat-on-shipping-cost/

    Also the DHL shipment integration would actually be a genious feature, but WCFM does not integrate this into the dashboards of vendors.

  • #130627
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    SebastianFloKa
    Participant

    I plan on using Ideal payment (like Stripe) and Paypal for electronic payment gateway and I would like to have vendor also can choose bank account directly from checkout.
    Just to avoid misunderstanding: How do you plan to run ideal with WCFM? I haven’t heard this is supported but I’m happy if you proof me of something different. In the beginning I also thought I could use all the payment types supported by stripe such as apple pay, giropay etc. for the WCFM stripe split pay, but all these are not supported, only american cards. That’s why I want to double check that you don’t make the same mistake.

    It would be nicer indeed when vendor could choose his own tax because right now
    I assume you already implemented at least the code snippet to hide the tax field in product manager for private vendors and apply 0% VAT to all of them, right?

    Although I must admit that the added shipping tax in cart puzzles me a little bit but I’m not that far yet to have a good look into it.

    As you use singlevendor checkout you are already safe from the big error WCFM is doing in the shipping tax calculation. There’s only a medium error left. Imagine you have a vendor selling TV’s (21% VAT) and Banana’s (9%). The customers buys within one order a TV for 100€ and Bananas worth A) 10€ B) 100€ C) 1000€. How would you expect the VAT on shipping to be calculated in the 3 scenarios?
    In Europe you are generally safe if you would do it the following way:
    – Have shipping as GROSS value not NET value. Unfortunately is not foressen from WooCommerce and would therefore be solved by Germanized-plugin, but running WCFM + germanized in parallel end up again in NET shipping values – unfortunately.
    – Do tax split on shipping cost. So first the ratio of each VAT is calculated (in our example B) 50:50 and than this ratio is applied to the shipping cost, so in our example B) 50:50 means Gross shipping price of 5 € would mean 21% on 2,50 and 9 % on 2,50.
    But as explained WCFM does not do this tax split. Instead uses the WooCommerce/setting/tax/shipping tax class which should be at least “based on cart items”.

    But it’s just 1 email and 1 pdf with all the items customer has bought.
    Well the question was more how many tracking-# emails are sent (one per order or one per item)? Should be one email per order for you because you are not running germanized.

  • #130783
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    Henriette
    Participant

    Just to avoid misunderstanding: How do you plan to run ideal with WCFM?
    Right now for my boss I am running it with Mollie.
    They offer a lot of European payments and also split payments is an option ( https://help.mollie.com/hc/de/articles/360023733733-Kann-ich-eine-Zahlung-aufteilen- ).
    So I am planning to use this too for my marketplace. As you see they operate also in Germany.
    Please have a look here and scroll down for the available payment methods ( https://www.mollie.com/de/ )
    Their rates are very reasonable too and you can let vendor pay for the transaction costs.
    Mind you that Mollie is fully compatible with Woocommerce.

    I assume you already implemented at least the code snippet to hide the tax field in product manager for private vendors and apply 0% VAT to all of them, right?
    What do you mean by that? Right now in Product Manager vendor can keep standard (21%) VAT rate or otherwise he has to choose another rate (please see attachment).
    That’s why I’d like vendors to setup their own standard tax because when they sell in the 9% rate and they forget to change it than it becomes automatically 21%.
    This counts also for different shipping taxes.

    Imagine you have a vendor selling TV’s (21% VAT) and Banana’s (9%). The customers buys within one order a TV for 100€ and Bananas worth A) 10€ B) 100€ C) 1000€. How would you expect the VAT on shipping to be calculated in the 3 scenarios?
    I haven’t tried this yet. Will do today.

    Well the question was more how many tracking-# emails are sent (one per order or one per item)?
    I don’t know. Unfortunately I had to turn of shipping tracking due to an unsolved question about shipping tracking. ( https://wclovers.com/forums/topic/wcfm-germanized-entering-a-delivery-time-crashes-product-manager/#post-130777 )

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  • #130788
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    popandbloom
    Participant

    hihi,

    Stripe supports IDEAL and GIROPAY, but you will need to have an EU bank account to enable these payments set up. Have you contacted STRIPE yet? They are very good at customer service with live chat and emails. So, worth contacting them about your payment gateways.

    Good Luck,

  • #130799
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    Henriette
    Participant

    How does split payment with Stripe work?

    I contacted Mollie Netherlands about their split payment and they told me that I must have an account first (obviously) and than develop the split payment app on their site.
    Than vendor has to have a Mollie account also and give me permission on my Mollie account to receive the payments and that Mollie can pay to them.
    That’s the only reason why I am hesitating on using it because I don’t know if vendors are willing to do so.
    Besides that it’s not an option for private vendors or vendors who have business models who don’t require a business number because that is a requirement to have an account with Mollie.

    Most ideal for me would be that vendors can set heir own payment methods with their own payment gateway accounts.
    I don’t do commission just monthly membership fee so that wouldn’t be a problem.

    And like I said elsewhere with a custom Mollie plugin like PayPal direct where vendor can set their own payment gateway API key that shouldn’t be a problem than.
    Although that doesn’t answer my original question.

  • #130806
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    Henriette
    Participant

    Just to mention:
    In my case where there are no split payments (because of monthly membership fees) I also can let pay Mollie the whole amount for the vendors orders.
    Or the whole amount minus € 0,29 per transaction fee from Mollie.

    But again: I’m hesitating because of the process vendor has to go through to receive payments by Ideal.

  • #130889
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    SebastianFloKa
    Participant

    Stripe supports IDEAL and GIROPAY

    Be careful not mixing up words so that possible others developing a marketplace could get surprises when intending to go live (like in my case).

    For customers buying products via WCFM on a multivendor checkout:
    – Stripe – customer money to platform
    – Stripe Split Pay – customer money splittet /one part goes to vendor / commission part goes to platform.

    So it’s correct that Stripe generally supports IDEAL and GIROPAY and many many others, but NOT in combination with Stripe Split Pay, and that’s important to mention not to create wrong expectations!

    By the way – Stripe Split Pay itself was actually stopped by Stripe, but I haven’t found a statement from WCFM on this so far.

    However, as it’s true that Stripe supports so many payment gateways it would actually be great to have it running at WCFM also for singlevendor checkout, similar (and in best case integrated) to “Direct PayPal pay” plugin!

  • #130892
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    Henriette
    Participant

    Stripe Split Pay – customer money splittet /one part goes to vendor / commission part goes to platform.
    But Vendor than also needs an business account with Stripe right?
    Just like Mollie?

    Edit:
    it would actually be great to have it running at WCFM also for singlevendor checkout, similar (and in best case integrated) to “Direct PayPal pay” plugin!

    100% agree!

  • #130907
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    SebastianFloKa
    Participant

    But Vendor than also needs an business account with Stripe right?

    I cannot give you an answer to something that doesn’t exist anymore. But let’s assume WCFM will support the future solution of Stripe Connect direct pay (or however this will be called in the future), the best is you ask stripe themeselves as proppsed by @propandbloom. But my guess is yes, business account required, as you can see on following page
    https://stripe.com/docs/connect
    – collect payment then payout is normal multivendor stripe (customer pay to platform)
    – enable other business to accept payment directly which is probable what replaces Stripe Split Pay:
    https://stripe.com/docs/connect/enable-payment-acceptance-guide

    But again: also this “Stripe connect direct pay” (or whatever, so the link I posted) does currently only support american credit cards with WCFM, no IDEAL etc.

  • #130917
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    Henriette
    Participant

    Okay thank you.
    But what about Mollie payment gateway for direct payment option on single vendor checkout?
    If you’re interested and WCFM team too than I can let them have a look in my Joomla plugin for Mollie so no need to reinvent the wheel for them.
    Maybe when enough users are interested in such plugin it will be more lucrative for them to build one.

    @wcfm team are you interested in having a look into the Mollie direct pay plugin for Joomla?
    I can give you credentials in private post.

    • #134473
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      orth.bastian
      Participant

      I think here are enough people who would really appreciate such a solution.

      Here’s a documentation about how to add a custom payment gateway to wcfm:
      https://wclovers.com/knowledgebase/wcfm-marketplace-custom-payment-gateway-developers-guide/

      Maybe we can gather enough people together and hire an developer, who will implement this feature. I would pay for this.

      @sarmistha / @sushobhan: Hope you’re reading this

      • #134642
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        Henriette
        Participant

        @orth.bastian that would be nice but the solution you gave by link is only for withdraw payment from admin to vendor.
        My problem is that it isn’t allowed in my country to hold money from third parties as long as I am not responsible for the items.
        So I need vendor to setup his own payment gateway like in the PayPal Direct Payment plugin so he can directly be payed by his customers.
        I already have single vendor checkout so that wouldn’t be a problem for me.

        • #134715
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          orth.bastian
          Participant

          how sad…. i thought it would be also possible for the split payment. I’m from germany and looking for a automatic split payment between buyer, the vendors and platform. It is no solution only to have a 1:1 transaction. I need a 1 buyer to multiple vendor solution.
          Yes every vendor need his own setup for the payment gateway. Atm i will start my proof of concept with the paypal direct plugin but this is no real solution for me. I need split-payments, which are supporting different payment methods like sepa debit transfer, paypal, SOFORT and not only credit card.

  • #131243
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    Henriette
    Participant

    @sebastian to answer your previous posts:
    If so, did you check how many emails are sent to customer with tracking numbers (also notes to customers) per item:
    and
    But if that’s not the case for you, looks like it’s an issue again with germanized plugin (but to be confirmed). thanks.

    I can tell you that it is definitely not your Germanized plugin.
    I enabled Shipping Tracking again and placed a few orders with several items and was shocked to see what happened!

    Please see attachments, numbers in post are corresponding with the numbers on the attachments.
    Removed customer name and address due to privacy reasons.

    [1] First of all when you view orders by clicking on the right top of vendor dashboard (the bell) every item of each order is marked as one item. The only thing that separates the orders from each other are the order numbers
    When you click on one item [1a] you will get to see full order [2]
    Look what happens later when I mark the order as shipped [2a]
    [3] One surprising thing was that you CAN put something else in the required tracking fields. N.v.t. means “unzutreffend” in Dutch.
    [4] So I marked the order as shipped with tracking info (n.v.t.) and look what happens. Only the one item is being marked as sent.
    [4a] Going back to the order pages there’s nothing that indicates that at least one of the items of that order has shipped.
    [5] Customer gets one ‘shipped’ email with the only item from the total order.
    [6] When you visit orders from the tab “Orders” in the dashboard on the left side you will get to see the total order.
    [6a] When clicking on ‘View Order’ you will be taken to the same page with the order where there is that one particular item marked as shipped. There is nothing you can change here anymore.

    But wait!

    So you go back to the order page [6] and you click on the truck to mark order as shipped [7] than the whole order will be marked as shipped but customer gets indeed a ‘shipped’ email with tracking info from every item separately, just like you said.

    Well I can live with a lot of WCFM that doesn’t do quite what I want and that is changeable with some workaround or a snippet.
    But this is ridiculous and totally unacceptable me for me!
    And I am not spending another minute on the site as long as this is not solved because this is an absolutely deal breaker for me.

    Thank you for the info.
    I only tried with one item ordering at the time and without shipping tracking so I would probably never had found out myself.

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  • #131333
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    Marina-Martens
    Participant

    I would also be interested in such a plugin as Henriette described
    Germany always behaves like that
    Who knows if it is also forbidden in Germany

    Ich wäre auch interessiert an so einem Plugin wie Henriette es beschrieben hat
    Deutschland Stellt sich ja auch immer so an
    Wer weiss ob es in Deutschland auch verboten ist

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